janekp

Nie wiem czy najwiekszy ,bynajmniej u mnie w tej chwili tak.

Taki zestaw

JA

Wydaje mi sie ze jest to jednak typowy budzik francuski w obudowie z czarnego marmuru czy bazaltu,na tarczy jest napis kasy oszczednosciowej pracowniczej z Lille we Francji,nie jest to marka lub nazwa handlowa Lille.

Juz byl link wczesniej ,jest video.

Szukalem jego patentu ale nic nie ma ,mysle ze sciagnal od francuzow .Jest notowany jako zegarmistrz w Lubeck w 1868 i 1873 roku. Bosch Gebhard Uhrmacher Kohlmarkt 272 1873 Bosch , Gebhard , Uhrmacher , Breitestr . , dem Rathhaufe gegenübei 945 ; dessen Laden : Holstenstr . am Kohlmarkt 270 . Poszukalem dalej i znalazlem opisy francuskich patentow ,pozniej opisze chronologie ,na razie skan .Wsrod pionierow tego wychwytu wymienia sie od roku 1847 Wagner,Arago,Brequet,Poncelet,Foucault,Pecqueur,Moinet,Thiout,Balliman(zawieszenie wahadla na pojedynczym drucie),Cuel,Laurendeau,- najlepszym okazalo sie zawieszenie na 4 blaszkach ,wlosach i Cardan.

Trop prowadzi do Francji...

Zaiste ciekawostka,nie spotkałem takiego jeszcze chyba ....Gratuluje zakupu.

Wg ostatniej aktualizacji tych wszystkich Plyt ,plyta 1015 odpowiada A Huber okolo 1915 rok.. Book:Horolovar 400 Day Clock Repair Guide, 10th Edition, Errors and Updates | NAWCC Forums

Ciekawy,moze mial ten beben zapewnic zapas energii przy skomplikowanym biciu >>>> zeby wyrownac chod z biciem.

Junghans ....

katalog 1912 rok nlnlnlnlnhlnh.pdf

Tak to Japy,mam takich karton na czesci i kilka calych.W katalogu masz budziki wahadlowe albo z przystawka balansowa

1906 rok

Szkoda tylko że w temacie narzędzi i terminologii zegarmistrzowskiej nie mam takich sojuszników - mimo że na forum jest sporo fachowców znających się więcej ode mnie na tych tematach. A niestety jest też sporo Kolegów którzy chwaląc się swoim warsztatem czy dokonanymi "naprawami" - piszą bzdury. Jak napiszesz bzdury to zawsze ktos Cie wypunktuje ,czyli na razie piszesz konkrety.🙂 Nikt nie neguje Twoich opisów.Tak dalej trzymać>🤪

Na Nawacu opublikowano aktualizacje X wydania.Dalej jest bląd w nazwie Gerson Wintermantel & Cie oraz w nazwisku Gerson Wintermantel ale to dla nas nie jest problem. Book:Horolovar 400 Day Clock Repair Guide, 10th Edition, Errors and Updates | NAWCC Forums Book Horolovar 400 Day Clock Repair Guide, 10th Edition, Errors and Updates The Horolovar Guide is perhaps the most valuable reference available for repair of 400 day clocks. Starting as a selection guide for Horolovar suspension springs, it gradually expanded into a full reference for solving operating problems and identifying clock movements. Given that the latest edition of the guide was published almost 30 years ago, it is a testament to its value that it is still the go to reference for most 400 day clock repair. Starting with the 9th ed., 1984, an effort was made to tell the history of the clocks and identify the earlier manufacturers. In this area the guide falls short. The author/editors certainly used the most accurate information available at the time, but much research since then has shown a great volume of information was, at that time, unknown. Much of the new information is still yet to be published as a new work or even as a correction to the repair guide. There are also many holes in the history that are yet to be filled. The unfortunate result is that over the years the incorrect information in the guide is now taken as accurate. It seems unlikely that a revised edition of the guide will be published any time soon. For this reason it would be very useful to create a comprehensive errata document to address the known problems. This document is not an attempt to create a complete revision. It is simply to correct the known errors. Some information not previously published in the Repair Guide will need to be included here, as several manufacturers of 400 day clocks were not known about when the 10th ed. was published. The information provided here is derived from the independent research and hands on work with 400 day clocks performed by various individuals who have posted their findings and comments to this message board. Additional information is from other outside sources as noted. This is a work in progress. Contents Section 1 History of the 400-Day Clock Section 3 History of Striking 400-Day Clocks Section 6 Some Outstanding Pre-World War I 400-Day Clocks Section 9 400-Day Clock Back Plate Illustrations Section 10 400-Day Clock Suspension Spring Unit Identification Section 13 About 400-Day Clock Pendulums Section 15 400-Day Clock Suspension Brackets and Saddles Section 18 Appendix Section 1 History of the 400-Day Clock Note: This section of the guide has some interesting history that warrants further review. It is a good starting point, but there are several major inaccuracies that need to be addressed, along with a few typos. Note: The most current and accurate histories of early torsion clock makers can be found in the appendix of Timely Memories, A Look at Anniversary Clocks, text by John Hubby, 2017, published by NAWCC Chapter 168. Page 8, Column 2, para 3: Change: "Zwitung" to "Zeitung" Page 8, Column 2, last para: There is no evidence that Anton Harder had any contact or knowledge of the activities of Lorenz Jehlin until he applied for a patent for his own torsion clock in July 1878. Harder was denied the patent for a torsion pendulum but awarded No. 7543 for the design of his clock. Harder withdrew his patent request and his lawyers later acquired the rights to patent 2437 from Jehlin's estate in 1880. Note: The best source of information on this subject is found in the article Jehlin's Two Patents & Harder's Own Story by Douglas K. Stevenson, NAWCC Watch & Clock Bulletin, Aug 2010. Page 9, Column 2, para 2: The firm Gershon Wintermantle and Co, later Jahresuhrenfabrik, was started in Feb 1881 from a group of workers from the firm of Michael Bob after the owner's death in 1880. Wintermantle, Schatz, and their two other partners purchased Bob's tooling and materials and set up shop in Triberg building weight driven regulators. In late 1881 another clockmaker working with Harder, a Mr. Siedle, contacted The Wintermantle Co. to see if they could adapt the Graham escapement to the Harder clock. Wintermantle & Co. made torsion clocks for Harder, in addition to their own clocks, until 1883 when the Harder patents were sold to F.A.L. de Gruyter. Afterward they made only torsion clocks. The company changed their name to Jahresuhrenfabrik (Year Clock Factory) in 1884. Note: From the diary of August Schatz, Schatz 100 Years Jahresuhren-Fabrik GmbH Aug. Schatz & Söhne, A History of the firm 1881-1981. Page 10, Column 1, last para: Delete paragraph. The first 400 day clocks with pin pallet escapements and lantern pinions were made by the Andreas Huber Co. after 1911. The 3-ball pendulum (Section 13, pend 28) was also made by Huber. Note: Badische did not make the 400 day clocks with lantern pinions that they sold with their logo or any of those with lantern pinions without their logo. They did make 400 day torsion clocks that used an inverted weight driven movement and a single ball pendulum with the adjustment weights hidden inside. An explanation and diagrams of their clock can be found in the 1904 Leipziger Uhrmacher Zeitung, No. 20, pages 312 to 313. The clock design was issued British patent No. 7059 on 28 Apr 1904 (see Section 4, item 20). The pendulum design was granted DRGM 218447 on 27 Jan 1904. Page 10, Column 2, first para: Delete: Badische Uhrenfabrik, Phil Hauck, Andreas Huber, and Ideal Clock Co. Note: Badische Uhrenfabrik started making torsion pendulum wall clocks under British Patent No. 7059 in 1904 as stated above. They sold clocks made by Jahresuhrenfabrik and Philipp Hauck bearing their "Crescent B" logo during that same time. After 1915 they sold clocks using Huber lantern pinion movements, but they did not make the clocks. Note: Uhrenfabrik Philipp Hauck of Munich made torsion clocks running 200 and 400 days from 1903 thru 1914. Note: The Andreas Huber Co. under the leadership of Joseph Huber obtained control of Harder's US and British patents from de Gruyter. They sold clocks made by Jahresuhrenfabrik (JUF) under an agreement similar to JUF's prior agreement with de Gruyter. For a time Huber controlled a world wide monopoly on 400 day clocks. After the Harder patents expired, Huber assembled and sold clocks made by JUF, Hauck, and Kienzle all bearing their "Urania" brand either printed on the dials or stamped on the back plates. Huber made clocks of their own design with lantern pinions and dead beat or pin pallet escapements starting in 1912. These clocks are found marked with Badische, Kienzle, and Huber logos, and the names of various importers. Note: The "Ideal" Clock Co. was the trade name for Wilhelm Würth & Co. of Schwenningen. Würth made 400-day clocks from 1903 thru 1910. Page 11, Column 1, para 6: Delete: Kieninger & Obergfell, and Wintermantel Uhrenfabrik Note: Kienninger und Obergfell (Kundo) began as a clock parts factory run by Johann Obergfell in 1899 in St. Georgen. Obergfell is credited with invention of the straight rod gong for clocks, DRGM 108469, in 1899. Obergfell partnered with George Kienninger in 1918 (forming Kundo) and began making 400 day clocks in 1923. Note: Wintermantel Uhrenfabrik made 400-day clocks using JUF movements for several years begining in 1924. Change: "Phillipp Haas" to "Philipp Hauck" Note: Phillipp Haas & Söhne (PHS) did not make any 400-day clocks. All references to Phillipp Haas in this guide should be changed to Philipp Hauck. Add: Wilhelm Würth Page 11, Column 1, para 7: Change: "Jahresuhrenfabrik 1905 catalog" to "Jahres-uhr catalog" Page 14, column 1, para 3: Pendulum guide cups were introduced by Kundo in 1933. Section 3 History of Striking 400-Day Clocks Page 22, Column 1, para 1: Change: "STRIKING" to "STRIKE" After: "center of dial" Change: comma to a period and Delete: remainder of sentence. Add: Movements were based on de Gruyter UK Patent No 3724 (not shown in guide). Para 2: Change: "Schneckenburger" to "Schnekenburger" (two places) Note: The references to duplex escapements made by Schnekenburger in this paragraph are incorrect. Research has determined that duplex escapement clocks were made by Carl Bauer, a cousin to the patent holder J. Christian Bauer (see Section 4, item 15). Footnote 1 Change: "1473" to "1473A" Footnote 2 Delete Page 23, Column 2: Change: "1905" to "1910" Change: "Jahresuhrenfabrik catalog for 1905" to "1910 Jahres-Uhr Catalog" Note: More complete discussions of Strikers can be found in eleven articles written by Mun Chor Weng and published in The Torsion Times. Section 6 Some Outstanding Pre-World War I 400-Day Clocks Page 33, Section 6 Tittle Change "Pre-World War I" to "Pre-World War II" Note: This sections shows clocks made and sold before and after WWI. Page 35 Clock 20 Change: Plate "1617" to "1260" Note: Clock 20 lists plate 1617 which is an early numbered JUF plate (c1906). Fortunately this clock is number 12 from the Horolovar Collection, and in that book the correct plate can be seen as 1260. Clock 20 is also a marriage of the JUF movement and pendulum with the base from a Huber/Badishe (200/201 from the Badishe 1924-25 catalog). Pages 36-37 Note: The "1905 Jahresuhrenfabrik Catalog" referenced on these pages contains many clocks not made or sold by Jahresuhrenfabrik. The current belief is that the catalog is more likely a jobber's or wholesaler's catalog. Also the date associated with the catalog (1905) pre-dates by several years some of the items shown therein. Section 9 400-Day Clock Back Plate Illustrations Page 70, Column 2, para 2, last sentence: Change: "have not been identified" to "were granted to the Andreas Huber Co. in 1911 and 1912 for the use of lantern pinions and pin pallet escapements in torsion pendulum clocks." Page 73 Plate 1007 Philipp Hauck c1905-1906 Plate 1007A Wilhelm Würth & Co. Clocks with this plate would have had serial numbers. Plate 1008 Wilhelm Würth & Co. c1910 Note: Clocks with this plate probably do not exist. The “MADE IN GERMANY” marking on this plate is not found with clocks bearing the Bowler & Burdick “Anniversary” stamps. Also the serial number is beyond the time that Würth provided clocks to B&B. Page 74 Plate 1008A Wilhelm Würth & Co. Note: Clocks with this plate probably do not exist. The “MADE IN GERMANY” marking on this plate (ALL CAPS) is inconsistent with the serial number, and is not found with clocks bearing the Bowler & Burdick “Anniversary” stamps. This plate also has the same serial number as plate 1009. Bowler & Burdick clocks having the banking pins, shown on either side of the anchor depth adjustment, have been found but are otherwise marked identical to plate 1009. Plate 1009 Wilhelm Würth & Co. Plate 1009A Wilhelm Würth & Co. Clocks with this plate would have had serial numbers. Plate 1009AA Wilhelm Würth & Co. c1907 Page 76 Plate 1015 Andreas Huber Co. c1916 Page 77 Plate 1016A Andreas Huber Co. c1911-1915 Page 78 Plate 1019 Andreas Huber Co. c1916 Plate 1019A Andreas Huber Co. c1916 Page 82 Plate 1041 Andreas Huber Co. c1911-1915 Page 83 Plate 1043 Philipp Hauck c1904-1906 Plate 1049 Wilhelm Würth & Co. c1903-1905 Plate 1049A Wilhelm Würth & Co. Page 84 Plate 1053 Wilhelm Würth & Co. Plate 1055 Philipp Hauck c1905-1906 Plate 1056 Philipp Hauck c1905-1906 Page 95 Plate 1150 Gershon Wintermantle & Co. Page 97 Plate 1172 J. Christian Bauer c1901 DRP 120072 Page 98 Plate 1179 Jahesuhrenfabrik c1911 Page 110 Plate 1251 Andreas Huber Co. Plate 1251A Andreas Huber Co. Page 112 Plate 1259 c1924-1927 Plate 1260 c1924-1927 Plate 1263 c1921-1923 Note: Serial number shown is out of range for JUF clocks. JUF produced less than 170,000 number clocks. First digit is probably a "1". Plate 1264 c1923 Plate 1265 c1922-1924 Page 113 Plate 1267 c1922-1924 Page 114 Plate 1303, 1307 Carl Bauer c1896-1906 Page 117 Plate 1317 Schlenker & Posner c1928 4-Ball Pendulum 37 Use .0035” (.089mm) Horolovar No Appendix entry Plate 1318 Andreas Huber Co. Page 125 Plate 1384 Andreas Huber Co. Non-adjustable 4-ball pendulum 32 Appendix 96 Note: Plates 1384 and 1663 were used by Kienzle with the non-adjustable pendulum #32. The two screw holes to the right of the plate's centers are for the special suspension guard that slid down to capture the adjustable bottom block shown in appendix 96. Plate 1385 Andreas Huber Co. Plate 1387 Andreas Huber Co. Page 126 Plate 1388 c1939 Page 134 Plate 1415 Philipp Hauck c1908-1913 Plate 1419 Philipp Hauck c1909 Plate 1423 Wilhelm Würth & Co. Plate 1425 Philip Hauck c1906 Plate 1427 Wilhelm Würth & Co. Delete: 4-ball pendulum Page 135 Plate 1437 Wilhelm Würth & Co. Plate 1438 Wilhelm Würth & Co. Page 136 Plate 1440 Wilhelm Würth & Co. Delete: 4-ball pendulum Plate 1441 Philipp Hauck 1904 Plate 1443 Andreas Huber Co. Page 137 Plate 1451 Jahesuhrenfabrik c1911 This drawing is missing the upper plate pillars, see plate 1179 Plate 1451A Jahesuhrenfabrik c1914 This drawing is missing the upper plate pillars, see plate 1179 Page 138 Plate 1459 Philipp Hauck 1906 same as plate 1519 Page 143 Plate 1470E Wendez-Metzger Plate 1471 Jahesuhrenfabrik c1898-1903 Most clocks with this plate were sold by Andreas Huber Some movements have a different location for the click screw Disk pendulum 21 Page 146 Plate 1472H Schlenker & Posner c1928 This plate is identified as “PS” but the logo stamp is actually an “S” superimposed over a “P” 4-Ball Pendulum 37 Use .0035” (.089mm) Horolovar Plate 1473 Carl Bauer c1896-1906 Plate 1473A Carl Bauer c1896-1906 Note: Both plates 1473 and 1473A can be found with either bell striker or gong striker. Except for the difference in the serial number of these two plates, all the other makings are identical. Plate 1473B Carl Bauer c1896-1906 Note: This back plate is found with bell striker only and not with gong striker. Page 149 Plate 1490 Schlenker & Posner c1928 4-Ball Pendulum 37 Use .0035” (.089mm) Horolovar No Appendix entry Page 150 Plate 1505 Schlenker & Posner c1928 4-Ball Pendulum 37 Use .0035” (.089mm) Horolovar (19X38) No Appendix entry Page 151 Plate 1515 Andreas Huber Co. c1926 Plate 1519 Philipp Hauck 1906 same as plate 1459 Plate 1519A Philipp Hauck 1906 Page 153 Plate 1522D Philipp Hauck c1902-1903 Page 154 Plate 1527 c1924-1927 Plate 1529 Schlenker & Posner c1928 4-Ball Pendulum 37 Use .0035” (.089mm) Horolovar No Appendix entry (19x38) Page 155 Plate 1547 c1927-1939 Plate 1551 c1924-1927 Page 156 Plate 1559 Schlenker & Posner c1928 4-Ball Pendulum 37 Use .0035” (.089mm) Horolovar No Appendix entry Page 158 Plate 1579AA Jahesuhrenfabrik c1924 Wintermantel Uhrenfabrik used JUF movements Page 162 Plate 1595 c1927-1939 Plate 1595A c1927-1939 Plate 1597 Jahesuhrenfabrik c1888 Page 163 Plate 1603 Wilhelm Würth & Co. Delete: 4-ball pendulum Plate 1607 Philipp Hauck 1906-1914 3-ball pendulum, not 4-ball Plate 1610 Philipp Hauck 1903-1905 Plate 1613 Wilhelm Würth & Co. Delete: 4-ball pendulum Page 164 Plate 1614 Kern & Sohne Schatz Jubilee clocks were made by Kern Page 165 Plate 1621 Jahesuhrenfabrik Plate 1623 Junghans Page 166 Plate 1626 Wilhelm Würth & Co. Plate 1627 Andreas Huber Co. Plate 1628 Andreas Huber Co. Page 167 Plate 1632 Philipp Hauck c1907 Plate 1633 Gustav Becker Page 168 Plate 1643 Andreas Huber Co. Page 169 Plate 1663 Andreas Huber Co. Non-adjustable 4-ball pendulum 32 Note: Plates 1384 and 1663 were used by Kienzle with the non-adjustable pendulum #32. The two screw holes to the right of the plate's centers are for the special suspension guard that slid down to capture the adjustable bottom block shown in appendix 96. Page 170 Plate 1667 Kern & Link 1929-1937 Kern & Sohne 1937-1950s Page 172 Plate 1677 Andreas Huber Co. Page 175 Plate 1699 Philipp Hauck c1906 Plate 1717 Andreas Huber Co. Delete appendix 96 Page 177 Plate 1729, 1730 Carl Bauer c1896-1906 Note: These two Plates are redundant as they are the same as plate 1473 Section 10 400-Day Clock Suspension Spring Unit Identification Page 180 Unit 10C 12 Beats per Minute Unit 10D CHANGE: "made by Jahresuhrenfabrik" to "made by Kern and Söhne for Jahresuhrenfabrik," Same as Unit 11A Section 13 About 400-Day Clock Pendulums Page 194, column 2, last para, first sentence, CHANGE: "1912" to "the late 1920s for most manufacturers." ADD: "The Schlenker and Posner Co. offered a disc pendulum option on at least one of their models between 1928 and 1936." Page 195 Pend 6 c1906 DRGM 276288 Also found with 4 large weights Also found with no gallery Pend 7 Wille/Würth c1903 DRP 144687 Pend 8 Andreas Huber Co. c1911 DRGM 453568 Pend 9 Andreas Huber Co. c1911 DRGM 453568 Pend 10 DRP 144688 Pend 13 Wilhelm Würth Page 196 Pend 19 Philipp Hauck c1904 5 column gallery shown Also found with 6 column gallery Pend 20 Wilhelm Würth c1903 Used with Würth clocks Kronen Drehpendel Pend 23 Shown 1st of 5 versions Pend 25 Wintermantel Uhrenfabrik c1924 Plate 1579AA Pend 26 Philipp Hauck c1911 DRGM 471231 Pend 27 c1924-1939 NOT temperature compensating DRGMs 868673, 74, 75 Pend 28 Andreas Huber Co. c1912 First version of two Pend 32 Kienzle Clock Factories c1915 Plate 1384, 1663 Non-adjustable Uses adjustable bottom block Pend 33 c1915 Pend 34 c1929 2nd version of Becker 4-ball Pend 37 Schlenker & Posner c1928-1937 Pend 38 Used with Huber pin pallet movements Pend 39 c1909-1950 DRGM 403658 Page 197 Pend 47 c1933-1952 Note: There are two versions of this pendulum. The other version (not shown) has the same center ball finial as pendulum 35. Both versions are more commonly found with the Mayer Kundos from the 1930s, plate 1467. Page 198 Pend 58 Pendulum pictured is missing top locking disk, See Pendulums 68 and 90. Page 200 Pend 97 c1933-1952 Section 15 400-Day Clock Suspension Brackets and Saddles Page 202 Brackets 1-3 Huber Std. Bracket 11 Würth Std. Bracket 12 Jahesuhrenfabrik Lunar 2nd version Bracket 14 Würth Std. 1907 DRGM 302860 Used by Würth and Kienzle Bracket 15 Huber “E” 1907 DRGM 319314 Used by JUF and Kienzle JUF version shown Bracket 16 Würth Std. 1907 DRGM 314710 Bracket 17 Hauck Std. Bracket 18 Kienzle Std. Bracket 27 Schlenker & Posner 1st version Section 18 Appendix Page 212 Appendix 10 CHANGE: Badische to Huber ADD: plate 1384. Note: It is not known if the statement in this appendix is even true, but now at least it identifies the right plates and maker. Page 217 Appendix 63 DELETE: first sentence ADD: "The anchor pivot hole for this plate is integrated into the suspension bracket. Escapement adjustment is lost when the suspension bracket is removed. Care should be taken to note the position of the suspension bracket prior to removal." ADD: after "tightened." See Section 7 for escapement adjustment. Page 231 Appendix 96 CHANGE: 1717 to 1384. Page 235 Appendix 123, Unit 1 Design B was used Just before and after WWII. This page has been seen 862 times. Created by etmb61 on Dec 13, 2020 Last updated by etmb61 on Apr 17, 2021

Ktos chyba grzebal w przekladni wskazan zeby miec - dobrac dobre wahadlo tradycyjne i zastapic torsyjne.

Przeciez dzial nazywa sie zegary roczne i inne z wahadlem torsyjnym wiec 30 dniowy z wahadlem torsyjnym tutaj pasuje jak najbardziej.Wszystkie zegary z wahadlem torsyjnym 8-dniowe,30 dniowe,polroczne , z balansem torsyjnym czy balansem elektromagnetycznym ,Eureki,Tiffany ,Hettich itp sa jak najbardziej mile widziane

Gabelhörner Gabelhörner

Mysle ze dobry jest Katalog od Kieszonkowe jak również Kasia podała namiar na goscia w Niemczech który stworzyl katalog na podstawie wieloletnich badan i obserwacji konstrukcji werkow.

Traktuje go jako ciekawostke techniczną.Dzięki za podpowiedz.🙂

Znalazlem opis dlugosci nitki i sposob regulacji.

Oczywiscie ze nie ale ciekawa zbieznosc nazw😀

Jest Hora AG jest tez i HORA Uhrengrosshandels Gmbh Leipzig niemiecka zdaje sie z roku 1921-1926(Julius Fritschi do 1921 pozniej do 1926 ,Manfred Benzing )-nie wiem czy mieli wlasny znak towarowy.Oczywiscie nie neguje tutaj pochodzenia waszych zegarow....

W związku z czestymi pytaniami o date produkcji werkow Junghansa zamieszczam oficjalną tabelę.Może się przyda. Junghans_Kaliberliste.pdf